I do the same thing in my relationship. I know he does at least as much for me as I do for him. So that frees me from the burden of counting. I already know the score is in my favor. So I can just do things for him without doing any math. And I know, he has yet to disappoint me, that he will return it all with interest. If you're counting, you're losing. Glad to see this articulated.
Annie 🙈 I was hoping you'd read and enjoy this one after our last exchange. Thank you 🥹 It was less saucy than I originally intended, but I followed the mood! Your sweetness is so so so so so appreciated ❤️
As long as there is reciprocity in a relationship, romantic or platonic, it will thrive. It doesn’t mean tit for tat or keeping perfect score. It’s the comfort and knowledge and evidence that you are cared for in equal measure and intensity as you care about them, even if the specifics aren’t identical.
If the best that a couple can achieve is fairness, should they split up? For example, what if the thing that a man wants is a low paying career that he is passionate about, and what the woman in the couple wants is to be a stay at home mom? I think that prospectively, if those two people believe they want those before they have kids, then it is pretty simple if they just go their separate ways. But what if they both thought that they wanted high powered careers, and then had kids, and only after realized that isn’t what they want?
Edited to add: I get the impression from a lot of the feminists blogging about motherhood and divorce that a lot of couples find themselves in a situation where they thought that they wanted kids, etc., but the reality is that parenting, running a household, working and maintaining a career that keeps the family out of poverty, are things that overall just leave them drained, and that what really brings them fulfillment is time spent with friends, family (not the kids but siblings, parents, etc.), volunteering and participating in religious and/or community life, hobbies, and perhaps they want jobs that pay less, are a better fit for their personality, strengths, values, and require less time and mental energy. These are situations in which it seems like not everyone in the family can get what they need to really flourish, and I don’t know how a couple can really effectively deal with that. It also seems pretty common.
This is all so real and true! Societal influences do push people toward lives that aren’t necessarily in tune with their true values (marriage for some, career for others). Society also often demands people spend time doing things they might not want simply to survive (employment, caregiving). What I’m suggesting with mutual selfishness requires both individuals in a couple to have an awareness of themselves (their true values, their gifts), and society (how, practically, they might survive and find joy), and to seek a couple where those things are complementary. But as you point out, people change! Sometimes they think they know themselves and they didn’t, and sometimes what they want just shifts. These are normal things, and I think anyone in a couple needs to be pragmatically aware of that just as they are with their survival and joy in society. To be prepared for change. To accept it in others. Or to accept what must happen if you can’t accept that in others - separation, and the resulting arrangements. I don’t think anyone should plan for these changes - because how can you prepare for an unknown future without sacrificing the present? We just have to make the best choices we can with what we have available to us now. A couple between a man who wants a low paying job and a woman who wants to stay home is possible - so long as they have living circumstance and aspirations that match their means. Money is a stressor for all - those with ample means and those not. It is not the severity of stress, but how we manage the stress as a team that proves its power over us. As for the executive couples - and the parenting bloggers you mention - who only discover their true sources of joy after committing to children and believe it’s incompatible with their life, I think that’s about a similar thing… They must pragmatically look at their wishes, gifts, means, and look for the best outcome for themself - noticing what comes of that honest reflection - then honestly communicate that vision with their partner. It will likely mean compromise. I don’t have every single thing I could want in the world, but I’ve prioritized what I most want - what I couldn’t live without, and do what I know I must to maintain that. (For example, I hardly have alone time. It’d be nice to have some but I’d much rather spend my limited time with my husband and kids. I’d also love to live in another town - somewhere less urban - but my family needs to be where we are. This doesn’t mean I won’t get “my ideal” circumstances as some point in life again. I am more than happy to compromise on those things for now because it overall makes my life better.) I think at the root of this is people wanting to not compromise. We have a limited aptitude for difference in the world lately. And if that’s what one wants - to be and do themselves how they want - one ought not be in relationship. Compromising and relationships are amazing. It lets you learn more about yourself, the world, people, and without learning, difference, challenge, we’re all a bit dull. But it’s not for everyone.
Lastly, I think a lot of people are just frustrated with the world right now. Society is in a bit of a tough place. People are struggling. I don’t blame anyone for venting their frustrations with love, family life, etc. It’s tough to live, period, and certainly tough to navigate parenting right now.
Lastly, to your first question, if all a couple has to hope for is fairness, no I don’t think they should give up. Only give up if there’s no love, and no way back to it.
Pardon my ramble, and delay. I hope that was helpful somehow.
I do the same thing in my relationship. I know he does at least as much for me as I do for him. So that frees me from the burden of counting. I already know the score is in my favor. So I can just do things for him without doing any math. And I know, he has yet to disappoint me, that he will return it all with interest. If you're counting, you're losing. Glad to see this articulated.
Hell yes. "If you're counting, you're losing" could've been the title. It's so true. I'm glad you have a good thing going too :)
Wise leads to lucky, and you are one wise woman!
🥰 Oh goodness, thank you, Jack. You’re too sweet!
LOVED THIS POST. Super timely for me and super super insightful. Thank you for your vulnerability and wisdom!
Awww Keilah, this made my day. Thank you for reading and saying this. I hoped it might find the right people!! 🥲
Ooooooooh, she *nailed* it. It’s soft, it’s honest, and it had a beautiful arc.
Thank you Madam Writer Lady™️
Annie 🙈 I was hoping you'd read and enjoy this one after our last exchange. Thank you 🥹 It was less saucy than I originally intended, but I followed the mood! Your sweetness is so so so so so appreciated ❤️
It was perfect. This one needn’t be the saucy one. Its concept is so wide-reaching, that would have or could have been narrowing!
Thank you for writing so true. 🩵
As long as there is reciprocity in a relationship, romantic or platonic, it will thrive. It doesn’t mean tit for tat or keeping perfect score. It’s the comfort and knowledge and evidence that you are cared for in equal measure and intensity as you care about them, even if the specifics aren’t identical.
Absolutely ❤️❤️ “comfort that you are cared for” is such a lovely phrase. Thanks for sharing this point 🥰 and for reading this piece.
You make some good arguments here Abigail. I shall continue to be selfish
Whoever surrounds you is lucky for it! ☺️
Me included! (that’s a thank you)
If the best that a couple can achieve is fairness, should they split up? For example, what if the thing that a man wants is a low paying career that he is passionate about, and what the woman in the couple wants is to be a stay at home mom? I think that prospectively, if those two people believe they want those before they have kids, then it is pretty simple if they just go their separate ways. But what if they both thought that they wanted high powered careers, and then had kids, and only after realized that isn’t what they want?
Edited to add: I get the impression from a lot of the feminists blogging about motherhood and divorce that a lot of couples find themselves in a situation where they thought that they wanted kids, etc., but the reality is that parenting, running a household, working and maintaining a career that keeps the family out of poverty, are things that overall just leave them drained, and that what really brings them fulfillment is time spent with friends, family (not the kids but siblings, parents, etc.), volunteering and participating in religious and/or community life, hobbies, and perhaps they want jobs that pay less, are a better fit for their personality, strengths, values, and require less time and mental energy. These are situations in which it seems like not everyone in the family can get what they need to really flourish, and I don’t know how a couple can really effectively deal with that. It also seems pretty common.
This is all so real and true! Societal influences do push people toward lives that aren’t necessarily in tune with their true values (marriage for some, career for others). Society also often demands people spend time doing things they might not want simply to survive (employment, caregiving). What I’m suggesting with mutual selfishness requires both individuals in a couple to have an awareness of themselves (their true values, their gifts), and society (how, practically, they might survive and find joy), and to seek a couple where those things are complementary. But as you point out, people change! Sometimes they think they know themselves and they didn’t, and sometimes what they want just shifts. These are normal things, and I think anyone in a couple needs to be pragmatically aware of that just as they are with their survival and joy in society. To be prepared for change. To accept it in others. Or to accept what must happen if you can’t accept that in others - separation, and the resulting arrangements. I don’t think anyone should plan for these changes - because how can you prepare for an unknown future without sacrificing the present? We just have to make the best choices we can with what we have available to us now. A couple between a man who wants a low paying job and a woman who wants to stay home is possible - so long as they have living circumstance and aspirations that match their means. Money is a stressor for all - those with ample means and those not. It is not the severity of stress, but how we manage the stress as a team that proves its power over us. As for the executive couples - and the parenting bloggers you mention - who only discover their true sources of joy after committing to children and believe it’s incompatible with their life, I think that’s about a similar thing… They must pragmatically look at their wishes, gifts, means, and look for the best outcome for themself - noticing what comes of that honest reflection - then honestly communicate that vision with their partner. It will likely mean compromise. I don’t have every single thing I could want in the world, but I’ve prioritized what I most want - what I couldn’t live without, and do what I know I must to maintain that. (For example, I hardly have alone time. It’d be nice to have some but I’d much rather spend my limited time with my husband and kids. I’d also love to live in another town - somewhere less urban - but my family needs to be where we are. This doesn’t mean I won’t get “my ideal” circumstances as some point in life again. I am more than happy to compromise on those things for now because it overall makes my life better.) I think at the root of this is people wanting to not compromise. We have a limited aptitude for difference in the world lately. And if that’s what one wants - to be and do themselves how they want - one ought not be in relationship. Compromising and relationships are amazing. It lets you learn more about yourself, the world, people, and without learning, difference, challenge, we’re all a bit dull. But it’s not for everyone.
Lastly, I think a lot of people are just frustrated with the world right now. Society is in a bit of a tough place. People are struggling. I don’t blame anyone for venting their frustrations with love, family life, etc. It’s tough to live, period, and certainly tough to navigate parenting right now.
Lastly, to your first question, if all a couple has to hope for is fairness, no I don’t think they should give up. Only give up if there’s no love, and no way back to it.
Pardon my ramble, and delay. I hope that was helpful somehow.